
Below is a recent blogging debate between myself and Greg Swan of Blood Hound Realty fame. Greg is the Grand Poo-Bah or Big, Bad Dog of real estate blogging, or so I’ve been told. I am pretty new on the scene with my blog, but miles and miles down the real estate road. I love the blogging world's emerging debates and appreciate the fact that differing viewpoints can be heard and acknowledged. The ROI is so worthwhile. If you read Greg’s other postings you will find some really good stuff. On this, however, I had to speak my piece.
This posting is in response to Greg’s blog entitled:
Real estate licensing laws are a criminal conspiracy against the consumer created by and for the benefit of a cartel And my response, etc. etc. We are both guilty of excess length but read until your eyes glaze over, then read some more.
Greg,
I am an avid reader and fan of your posts and really appreciate the bite of your positions, but I have to say my eyebrows are still up to my hairline on this one. As to this most recent post on licensure I find Disraeli’s words to Gladstone applicable: "You are a sophisticated rhetorician inebriated by the exuberance of your own verbosity."
My first thought was that you were just trying to get a rise out of your audience, which I often enjoy. But then who would write such a long post on Saturday night unless he was really wound up about the subject? Relax. Enjoy life. And wait for the clear light of day before pushing “Publish”.
I'm completely with you though about the huge need for reform. My position about the status quo in real estate is that it needs an explosion to alleviate the toxic gases. But why waste your time on such a foolish argument over eliminating licensure, except as a fruitless mental exercise (oxymoron?)? I just don't fall for your position. It takes on the forcefulness of "often in error, never in doubt."
Since this is your blog and you get to set the rules which were, “if you can dispute this then make your case in cold, clear reason. And if you cannot dispute this argument, a gracious concession would be an unexpected delight.” A gracious concession it will not be. OK, I’m game.
I am not a lawyer and so I am on unprofessional ground, but if a blogger can have an opinion, this is mine. Real estate licensing law protects the public to the extent that the only people who can assist a buyer or seller in a real estate transaction for a fee is an individual who has been licensed by the state (and found not to be a felon wanted for bank robbery) and has been instructed on the terms of these real estate laws and regulations (except for lawyers – are you a lawyer, is that what this is about?) In some cases it is a shortcut to the subject of real estate from general statutory law - transparency, clarification. Otherwise an opinion of real estate law would have to be extrapolated for application to the real estate transaction from the morass of statutory law. Now that is obviously a piece of cake for you, but for the normal practitioner it is quite an unwelcome task and one for which they would probably have to hire legal counsel. Also, I don’t mean to pick on your barber, but I am not comfortable with earnest money being held under the aegis of the red and white barber pole. I am really more comfortable with the FDIC insured escrow account governed under state law.
The state legislators set the real estate law and the state board or commission administers the licensing, complaints and disciplinary actions (which only includes the stockade.) A wronged consumer is protected by the laws only if they pursue recourse by filing a complaint and or/civil suit. What better incentive for law-abiding real estate agents than to be deprived of their livelihood? I agree that just because real estate laws are set forth and our license says we understand them and agree to abide by them or suffer excommunication, does not assure consumer protection as to the competency of a given licensee, or customer satisfaction, or whether a licensee is stupid, dishonest, or insane. Of course a consumer should check the real estate agent he chooses to work with to insure that they have the level of expertise to provide the services requested. Duhhhh! Isn’t that the case with everything we contract for as consumers – it is ultimately our responsibility. As a matter of fact, every contract I’ve ever signed as a broker says to the consumer, “I’m really a dumb ass. You cannot rely on anything I say, do, or represent. You are completely on your own and if you listen to me you are a dumb ass as well!” Or something to that effect.
But back to my point…at least the licensing of real estate agents says to the consumer that the practitioner has had at minimum the vermouth bottle of knowledge waived over the proverbial martini. Is it perfect? Far from it, but it beats the anarchy that would result with no licensing. I can just imagine your harangues if you were truly sharing commissions with the barber! Surely you are not serious when you suggest that “licensing laws exist to artificially limit who can be compensated for introducing buyers and sellers.” Are you saying an introduction is worthy of commission and that agents should pay the barber? For sure, one thing that the absence of real estate licensing law would resolve – the need for you to ever worry about acting in dual agency!
I think there is some muddy water between the state license law and the National Association of Realtors. The NAR is a trade organization and a self proclaimed “Self Regulatory Organization” but for its members only. It has nothing to do with the state licensing requirements (unless you count the world’s largest lobby, but they really like to go after the Fed’s on the big issues like banking). It is the NAR and the associated MLS’ that deserve your ire – and I’m with you! They are the ones that took the system and the laws and manipulated them into a self-serving voracious machine. I’ll bet you dinner with Snoop Dog that you have more clout with your legislators than with the NAR! You can email your legislators but you can’t email NAR. I tried!
You talk about training and again I agree that it is practically non-existent. The classes sponsored by the local Realtor® boards for their designations are a sham. They give you the answers!!! The instructors actually say “you will see this on the exam.” You give them the money you will get your designation unless you are a complete and utter idiot. At least our state licensing exams are for real.
I also beg to differ with your statement that “incompetents with stars in their eyes are the main profit center in many brokerages.” That would be a very, very broken business model. The money for the 100% models is from the producers’ MLS fees via dividends. Don’t worry; anybody banking on making a go from desk rentals won’t be around to rankle us next year.
As far as eliminating the licensing of real estate agents – be careful least you get what you seek…in all its ugly manifestations.
Now I’m really mad. I’ve spent my Sunday evening responding to what I found unworthy of your talent. Who’s the fool here? You got me to respond! Good night and good bye.
Greg’s Response:
Hi, Gerry,
>Disraeli’s words to Gladstone applicable: “You are a sophisticated rhetorician inebriated by the exuberance of your own verbosity.”
That’s the Fallacy Ad Hominem. Disraeli had no answer to make to Gladstone, so he attempted to ridicule him. In that respect, it was an Appeal to the Mob.
>But then who would write such a long post on Saturday night unless he was really wound up about the subject?
I work when I have time to work. I work a lot. I enjoy it a great deal. I am never wound up about anything. None of this matters.
> But why waste your time on such a foolish argument over eliminating licensure, except as a fruitless mental exercise (oxymoron?)?
In order to unearth and explore important principals of reality.
> It takes on the forcefulness of “often in error, never in doubt.”
Fallacy Ad Hominem again. I don’t take it personally.
> A wronged consumer is protected by the laws only if they pursue recourse by filing a complaint and or/civil suit.
As I discussed, there would be nothing different about this in the absence of real estate licensing laws. Your statement is true of any civil action, regardless of the statue law. If anything, statute law impairs the rights of consumers to pursue civil claims — for example, by limiting by fiat the time available to make a complaint.
> Otherwise an opinion of real estate law would have to be extrapolated for application to the real estate transaction from the morass of statutory law.
I think this is the Argument From Convenience: Doing the right thing is onerous, ergo doing the wrong thing is justified. That fails on its own, but working from case law instead of statute law is hardly onerous. You can be sure your E&O provider will be delighted to keep you up to date.
> What better incentive for law-abiding real estate agents than to be deprived of their livelihood?
Except it doesn’t work. Are you now arguing that you would prefer have your electrical appliances inspected by the government but not by the Underwriters Laboratories? Free market solutions work better, for two simple reasons: Success results in profit and failure results in liability. Neither of these motivations is true of government, and for this reason, among many others, we rightly hold government in contempt.
> at least the licensing of real estate agents says to the consumer that the practitioner has had at minimum the vermouth bottle of knowledge waived over the proverbial martini.
I addressed all of this las night. Absent licensing, we would reasonably expect agents to be better trained, more professional, less likely to make stupid mistakes. Their employers would not have the licensing laws to fall back on, and their E&O underwriters, among other professional oversight entities, would have every incentive to police bad behavior.
> Surely you are not serious when you suggest that “licensing laws exist to artificially limit who can be compensated for introducing buyers and sellers.”
You are now disputing clearly established historical fact.
> [The NAR] has nothing to do with the state licensing requirements
The NAR wrote the model legislation upon which state licensing is based.
> Now I’m really mad. I’ve spent my Sunday evening responding to what I found unworthy of your talent. Who’s the fool here? You got me to respond! Good night and good bye.
I’m very sorry you feel you’ve wasted your time. I don’t see that you’ve actually responded to what I wrote. I have addressed some of your concerns, but they are not of the essence. The essential point is this:
[Real estate licensing laws] are a conspiracy arrayed directly against alternative vendors, and indirectly against all consumers, created by and for the benefit of a cartel. They do not protect consumers. They serve instead to induce consumers to be careless about their own interests, even as they encourage licensees to misrepresent their knowledge and experience. Moreover, they prevent the spontaneous creation of truly-viable free-market alternatives to licensing. They not only do not protect consumers, they effectively prohibit the means by which the interests of consumers could be protected.
Your basic argument would seem to be that repealing the real estate licensing laws would result in the total absence of consumer protection. This is not what I said, nor is it a defensible position — although it is a common resort when the subject of repealing any law comes up.
In fact, the true protection of consumer interest at present is not the real estate licensing laws but, first, the due diligence already being effected by consumers, and, when that fails, the civil courts. When we stop trying to pretend that people with no incentive either to pursue success or avoid failure are somehow our fearless protectors, we can open up our minds to better alternatives. The real estate licensing laws not only do not protect the interests of consumers, they serve to prevent the creation of free-market entities that would zealously guard the interests of the real estate buying and selling public.
I would be grateful if you would go back and reread what I wrote, ruminating on the argument point by point. I have no doubt that I am right, but I have nothing whatever to gain by persuading you. Even so, the principal is important, and if you and other people reading here can master the principal behind this argument, you will be that much more secure from the rapine mercies of the state.
Gerry’s Response to Greg’s Response:
Greg,
Thanks for your prompt response. My quote from Disraeli was nothing more than a description of my impression of your blog, not an attack on the mob. Good deflection though. Really, between your conspiracy theory which evokes memories of Hilary’s paranoia and your radical rantings which remind me of McCarthy’s crusade to quell the red threat, I’m beginning to be a bit uncomfortable. I’ve enjoyed the repartee but I’m moving on. I prefer to engage in more applicable debates that have a relevance and resonance to those I would like to engage. Good night and good bye, but unlike Edward R. Murrow, I’ll be back.
To my visitors: As my four year old nephew once said, "Jabber, jabber, jabber." Thanks for listening. I’m sure you’re as exhausted as I am. I’d love to hear from you. Gerry